Jakob Springfeld: “There are also places in West Germany that I would call Dark Germany”
Jakob Springfeld is committed to fighting right-wing extremism in Saxony, has no problem with the term "Dark Germany," but also opposes Eastern German clichés. How does that work? A conversation.
Jakob Springfeld just turned 23 and has already published his second book. Like his first, it's about the fight against right-wing extremism in East Germany , but this time it includes the West. In the title, Springfeld acknowledges that he has "no idea" what's happening in the East. In the interview, he goes further, saying: "The West also has no idea what's happening in the West."
It's not easy to arrange a telephone interview with Jakob Springfeld. He travels across the country almost every week for readings, has a podcast, and is studying. When it finally happens, he's just arrived from Waltershausen, a small town in Thuringia .
Mr. Springfeld, you gave a reading in Thuringia last night. What was the mood like? Tense, as it is everywhere at the moment, even in big cities, in times of looming wars and the climate crisis. As a listener wanted to talk about the situation with right-wing violence in the area, a group of young neo-Nazis walked past the window.
Did they want to disrupt the reading?
No, I think it was a coincidence. They're just there.
Jakob Springfeld: Swastikas, Hitler salutes, right-wing extremist memes are normal in schoolsCan you still immediately recognize a neo-Nazi today?
The visitors knew the people. But there's also a resurgence in the trend of wearing right-wing extremist clothing brands or side partings. There were security guards at the reading, as is often the case at my appearances in the East. The windows of the youth center are repeatedly smashed. Many people involved in the East have a love-hate relationship with their hometown. Waltersdorf is located in a truly beautiful region of Thuringia; the sun was shining. And yet, the guy who did the technical work told me it was shitty to live there because neo-Nazis were terrorizing the town.
In the 1990s, right-wing extremist acts of violence occurred almost daily in the East, often resulting in deaths. What's the situation like today? There are many small towns where there are hardly any people left who could be the target of right-wing hostility and violence. They've moved away. I often give lectures in schools and always ask: How do you perceive the situation in your town? Usually, no one answers, but after the reading, 15 people stand in front of me and talk privately about everything that's happened. Carved swastikas, Hitler salutes, right-wing extremist memes in the class chat, and so on.
The young people don’t dare to talk about it in front of the class?
Yes. I'm often invited by teachers who hope I can convince the kids to stop being right-wing extremists in 90 minutes. That's nonsense, of course. My focus is more on empowering the kids who don't like all of this but feel alone.
If so many young people are right-wing or far-right, do they provoke people at their performances? It's more like the other day in Cottbus. There were 15 boys sitting in front of me in the front row, some wearing right-wing labels, their heads held high, their eyes arrogant. But when I talked about what the shift to the right is doing to people like me or to people who experience racism, there was no laughter, no insults. They're listening. That gives me a little courage.
What exactly are you saying?
I was recently on Rügen Island, and when I announced it on Instagram, I got a message: "Be careful not to catch one in seven days, kid." Along with an emoji of an eye and one of a fist. I told people about it at school. There were a few kids at the reading who didn't look so friendly, but no one bothered me. Afterward, I was able to chat with some of them.
Do you also go to schools in the West? What do you experience there? In Baden-Württemberg, teachers came to me and said: Please don't use the term AfD, because otherwise parents who vote for the AfD will complain. Nevertheless, in the West, the question often comes up: Why is it so bad in Saxony? Then I briefly explain why it might be worse there. But when you dig deeper, the students come up with many similar things. Racist insults or Hitler memes in chats are everywhere.
How do you know that things are worse in the East?
The election results in the West also scare me. The AfD is in second place in many places, and in some places it won the federal election. But in the East, the entire map was blue. And in the places where the AfD governs, the climate is changing. Friends from Pirna tell me that they've been harassed much more frequently on the street since the AfD elected their mayor. The West is following this trend, but with a delay.
Jakob Springfeld: The West points at the East, the East blames the WestOf the ten million AfD voters in the federal election, seven million came from the West. Nevertheless, the AfD is still considered a problem for the East. I gave a reading in Pfaffenhofen in Bavaria. On the way there, I passed a church with a large swastika painted on it. People told me about hostility. The next day, I gave a reading in Munich. The first question from the audience was: Can we support the fight against the far-right in Saxony from Munich? I asked back whether the Munich activists had ever been to Pfaffenhofen.
The West has outsourced the issue to the East?
Everyone likes to point the finger at others; it's convenient. The West forgets to clean up its own backyard. But I see this in the East too, when people bluntly point the finger at the West and say: The policies after reunification are to blame for us having to vote for the AfD. Yes, we should talk about the fact that people from the East earn less, inherit less, and are less represented in high office. But that's no excuse for strengthening anti-democratic forces.
Social psychologist Elmar Brähler says: In areas with a similar social structure, people vote similarly in East and West.
That's why I say the West has no idea what's happening in the East. But the West also has no idea what's happening in the West. In Munich, people tell me: Everything's much more relaxed here. But then there was the attack at the Olympic Center, in which an 18-year-old shot and killed nine people for racist reasons.
You're committed to combating right-wing extremist violence in the East, but you also reject stereotypes about the East. How do you manage this?
It's a very fine line. At readings in the East, I sometimes meet people who talk about all the cool initiatives there are, and that the East isn't right-wing at all. Others have become completely cynical and only list the right-wing extremist crimes. The truth is, both exist. But I'm also called a traitor in the East.
You write in your book that you have no problem with the term "Dark Germany" for the East. Why? If people affected by racism in the East say, "To me, it feels like Dark Germany," then that's their right. If someone from a civil society initiative says there are positive experiences here and the West can learn from us, then that's true, too.
I find the term "Dark Germany" not only offensive, but also generalizing and unsuitable for any debate. It implies that there is a bright Germany where everything is supposedly fine: the West.
When I think of my hometown of Zwickau, where for years people avoided confronting the right-wing extremist terrorist group NSU, which had gone underground in Zwickau, and where the mayor is now receiving threatening letters from an NSU email address, I think: Sometimes we really do our best to be generalized in exactly the same way. You can get upset about the term "Dark Germany," but only if you're equally upset about everyday racism in the East. Anything else is hypocritical. Then it's all about image.
What do you mean? I'm not working to improve the image of the East, to stop being called Dark Germany, but rather to ensure that people affected by discrimination can eventually feel safe here. Besides, there are many places in West Germany that I would consider Dark Germany.
A documentary about the East was recently broadcast on ARD. A data analysis published at the same time revealed that the East is primarily being reported on as a right-wing stronghold. Since 2000, this has been even more frequent than before.
I haven't seen the documentary or the analysis yet. But I think it's progress if more is reported on what's happening. I think you can't report too little on right-wing extremist attacks. I just wish other stories from the East were told at least as often.
Has the mood at your appearances changed since the last elections, in which the AfD performed so strongly?
Two years ago, it wasn't so common for students to come forward after readings and say, "What about the stabbing foreigners? Why don't you say anything about them?" But that's not just the AfD's fault; the discourse extends far beyond the party. And in Saxony-Anhalt, the AfD tried to find out and publicize the names of the teachers who invited me.
Do right-wing youths in schools decide what is cool?
Yes, but things can change quickly with young people. I'm encouraged by the success of the Left Party, even if I don't agree with them on everything. But they're holding their own on TikTok and are also being voted for by the very young, especially because they don't just parrot the right-wing discourse. Incidentally, I particularly resist it at school readings when people say you shouldn't talk to right-wingers. If people subscribe to right-wing narratives but are still open to discussion, I'll talk to them, as long as they're not sitting on a podium and thus influencing the surrounding audience with their propaganda. Not talking to any AfD fans at all is usually a demand that comes from the big city bubble. In a place like Zwickau, you can't avoid it.
You moved from Zwickau to Halle, but you write in the book that you don't know how long you'll feel safe there. I often get hate mail. I know that I can't go out alone in most cities in Saxony, and that readings have to be protected by security and police. Of course, that takes its toll. I now live in Leipzig, where I feel reasonably safe.
Are you still going to Zwickau?
My parents live there, my father works at VW. They've also been threatened; a neo-Nazi stood in front of our house. I arrive at the train station in Zwickau and have someone pick me up. When I'm out and about in the city, I do it in a larger group. My friends and I have a chat group called SOS Faschoalarm. People write in there almost every day, saying they have to run away or are being harassed. Many very young people have joined the right-wing group, some as young as 14.
You write in the book that you also gave the Hitler salute when you were 14. That was when my dad was already active in helping refugees, when I was already known as the left-wing guy at school. I found it kind of funny. It got me attention. But it was right-wing extremist. Luckily, I wasn't around people who were comfortable with it. And at some point, a teacher approached me and asked me what it was all about.
Otherwise, you might have slipped into the right-wing scene?
I certainly know how quickly it can happen. On the first day, Hitler memes are "funny" in the class chat. On the second day, someone is being insulted with racist slurs. But especially in the beginning, you can still reach the kids.
Berliner-zeitung
